Open your eyes...

[The seeker]

Ha ha ha ha , Poor Lay , poor old man .
Say whatever you want , still the Holy Quraan is the most truthful book in the world , whether you want it or not ,
instead of shouting , kicking and biting , go and catch one mistake in it , If you can , gather all your gang , family preachers and even your Pope , gather all you can and find one mistake in it , and until you do , then shut you moth up .
No one forced you to do anything , then how come that you want us to repeat your words that we dont believe in in the first place ! .
This is the way we Muslims believe in jesus , and we openly challenge that no religion on the surface of the earth has honored Jesus as Islam has done , not even your catholicism .
So stop mumbling about your love for jesus and respect for him , as this is really ironic , your paul says Jesus is anathema and you come to tell us about your respect of Jesus .
Here , we offered you solid facts , examples and offered you a place for a calm discussion , but you just kept complaining about things you invented , like fighting wind wills , and mistakened our tolerance for weakness .
But , hold on old man , we wont insult you back , this is what Our Messenger and Allah (swt) told us . " invite to the way of your lord with wisdome and fair preaching " .
You kept saying you were following "your lord " jesus , while upon confronting you with his words that he said about himself , you denied them and brought the words of preacher and saints instead of "your lord " words , so who is the liar now ? .
So go man , bend yourself down to a statue or a piece of wood , go ask the blessings from a man like you , go and eat the flesh of your lord and drink his blood . . . . Oh , lay , look where Jesus left you , and look where you got to .
End of preach .
Go and no one will cry after you .

[Ms Knight]

TK, he has gone way too far than any words can describe and we all don't care about what he is saying, so why loose your precious time with a person like this. Why don't we just delete any insults we don't like and save our time for other credible persons?

[Truth Knight]

TK, he has gone way too far than any words can describe and we all don't care about what he is saying, so why loose your precious time with a person like this. Why don't we just delete any insults we don't like and save our time for other credible persons?

Ms Knight, we can only erase the "words of insult" against Allah (SWT), the Prophet (PBUH) and the Holy Qur'an. I already did that as he violated the forum rules on this part like 10 times at least. But I left all his phrases intact so people can see what his religion teaches him to say about others.

As for my time, you're right. It's too precious to waste on someone with these manners and mind. I won't do that anymore isA.

[LayDominican]

TK,

Let me ask a question. How can we discuss things when your view of things religious are one sided and slanted so tight I am surprise you can take a step without first checking with the Qu'ran. Now I know that there may be some Catholics who would see the film and not be as upset as I was. That was because I trusted you, TK, I believe in you and what you had said about having an open mind and all that. I felt betrayed by that movie. I could not sleep seeing that devil mask on the face of Jesus. That went to far, over the top. You took my trust, my faith in you and just mocked everything we had said to one another.

[Truth Knight]

TK,

Let me ask a question. How can we discuss things when your view of things religious are one sided and slanted so tight I am surprise you can take a step without first checking with the Qu'ran. Now I know that there may be some Catholics who would see the film and not be as upset as I was. That was because I trusted you, TK, I believe in you and what you had said about having an open mind and all that. I felt betrayed by that movie. I could not sleep seeing that devil mask on the face of Jesus. That went to far, over the top. You took my trust, my faith in you and just mocked everything we had said to one another.

Now that I know the Holy Qur'an is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth after years and years of careful analysis and critical research, sure I don't take a step without first consulting it. I have a fountain of knowledge and the source of all truths in my hands. I'd only be stupid -to say the least- to take any step without first consulting it. But I didn't discuss anything with you from the Holy Qur'an. Not once. I was talking to you from your own book. You're blaming me because you can't do the same? Why do you think that your own deficiencies should be the measure for what's right and wrong?

I'm not going to get into that again Lay. The face of the devil on the statue is there to show you what you're really worshiping -from my point of view of course. You not accepting it is your right and you can -well could have, that is- criticized ANYTHING in it in a calm tone. Trying to make my belief match yours is narrow minded. I never tried to do that with you. I know without you saying it -although you did say it a dozen times loud and clear- that you think I worship anything but the true God, and I didn't blame you once for thinking this way. I tried to let you see the truth, but your demons never gave you a chance.

Now I'm done with that. Even for my own interest in knowing about catholicism I'll find someone else to inform me about it. This sort of conversation needs someone with a lot more broader mind and a lot less of snaps.

BTW, you'll have to excuse me, but since your posts are of explosive nature -no terrorist references intended- and since you have no problem insulting every single member on the group, not to mention forum rules violations, I put your posts on moderation que. That means from now you will write what you want, and it will either be approved or rejected by a forum moderator before they can actually be posted. I don't think I'm doing you injustice with that. I'm looking after the rest of the forum members, Muslims and non Muslims, as my administrative role forces me to. Of course had the case been the opposite, I would've been booted out of your forum a long time ago, so this is very generous I think.

[LayDominican]

If you can show me how to leave this group, I would be very grateful. I hope you ask this new Catholic dupe you have gotten the movie "open your eyes". As for the Qu'ran, I have found a Muslim who is much more honest with the Qu'ran and himself. So I guess this ends our friendship. Shame really. Like I said, I have trusted in you and your goal of understand one another.

So please, just kick me out. I don't want to be associated with this lousy place. And I guess what they said about Muslims and Islam is the truth. Also, you are free to look on the Muslim section of my group and see if you care to answer Gamal's question to you.

[Truth Knight]

Sure Lay. You leave this group by not typing http://tk.alshoura.org in your browser. That's simple enough I guess.

As for your group, you know -although I'm sure you've forgotten- as a Muslim, I can't be somewhere where Allah (SWT) and/or His verses are mocked and sworn, so I'm afraid I can't go there anymore as I said before. If Gamal or anyone has any questions about Islam, they are all more than welcome here. I left the link to the forum before I quit your group, and you can sure point him this way if you want.

[LayDominican]

TK,

Let me ask you a question. How would you react if I made a movie called "open your eyes" and proceeded to run down you beliefs? Would you remain calm? Would have just laugh it off? And if the person who made that film knew how much you loved you religion and love your God? Would just sit there and take it? I think not.

Whas has me so upset is that you betrayed my trust in you. I wish you had never made that film. For me, it set me off yes. I strike back when I am attack, and TK, you know that was an out and out attack on the Catholic Faith. Please, for once, put yourself in my place sitting there watching my faith just trashed. You seem to think I should have remained calm. That is was not directed at my faith! I am so sad at what you have done. I want to repair our friendship, but I don't know if I can.

Being a Roman Catholic is not what I am, but who I am. I am a Catholic thru and thru. I cannot help blow up when I watched that movie. It struck me thru my heart. I was so angry I was seeing red.

I am not taking a step backwards and saying I am sorry. I am not. I am a defender of my faith. I can not and will not stand by when lies are said about my faith. Oh, I can look up some Muslim groups that are not in accord with the Qu'ran. And I am sure that you know some Catholics that are not in accord with the Church and her Teachings. If you wish to know why I reacted as I did, read up on the Dominican Order. There are many Dominicans who were tough and defended the faith with their very lives.

In conclusion, it is sad what I did. I know that. But I would not change anything but the curse words. In fact I do not even allow those words on my own site. But you took my honor and trust and trash them in that movie.

[Truth Knight]

TK,

Let me ask you a question. How would you react if I made a movie called "open your eyes" and proceeded to run down you beliefs? Would you remain calm? Would have just laugh it off? And if the person who made that film knew how much you loved you religion and love your God? Would just sit there and take it? I think not.

Actually you don't need to ask me. Although this was not an attack on anything, and apparently you can't find anything wrong with it so you keep on attacking the music and the images! yet why imagine? Didn't you attack my faith, my God (SWT), the Prophet (PBUH) and everything Holy and sacred in Islam, long before you saw this film?

Mind you, you were far out swearing everyone and everything Muslim. I think all Muslims on the forum reacted calmly -although I personally think we shouldn't have, you weren't asking or making a point, you were all out swearing for the sake of hurting everyone.

Now you're upset because a film shows what's really happening from Christians and how they're going against the teachings of Jesus? Again, had that been "some christians acting against the teachings of their faith" I wouldn't have put this film up. Millions of christians do that daily, and I always say they're going against the teachings of their book. But these you see in the film are "GOOD CHRISTIANS" according to the church and its doctrines. They do that BECAUSE their church tells them to.

Whas has me so upset is that you betrayed my trust in you. I wish you had never made that film. For me, it set me off yes. I strike back when I am attack, and TK, you know that was an out and out attack on the Catholic Faith. Please, for once, put yourself in my place sitting there watching my faith just trashed. You seem to think I should have remained calm. That is was not directed at my faith! I am so sad at what you have done. I want to repair our friendship, but I don't know if I can.

I won't go through that again so, OK.

Being a Roman Catholic is not what I am, but who I am. I am a Catholic thru and thru. I cannot help blow up when I watched that movie. It struck me thru my heart. I was so angry I was seeing red.

I am not taking a step backwards and saying I am sorry. I am not. I am a defender of my faith.

"Defending your faith" not through refuting what's being presented to you, but by insulting persons and their faith only means you have no real defense against what you see. I even gave you 3 or 4 chances, pointing you in the right direction to defend your faith as a friend should do, but you threw that away and kept insulting for the sake of insulting! What a defense.

I can not and will not stand by when lies are said about my faith.

The fact that you couldn't point to a SINGLE LIE only goes to show that there are no lies. Repeating "lies" won't make it true. We're not a herd here. We're people who think for ourselves and can't be brainwashed.

Oh, I can look up some Muslim groups that are not in accord with the Qu'ran. And I am sure that you know some Catholics that are not in accord with the Church and her Teachings.

Again, the point was that although according to the bible these are bad christians, according to the church they're good christians. They're prostrating themselves to priests as you see -and as you know happens all the time. They're praying to the picture of the pope, and to a tree they say Jesus appeared at in Malta. Of course what's left out from the movie -time factor- are prayers to saints, statues of Mary, the pope himself and many, many other things. The church's blessings are with them all the way. You know that, so why are you pretending you don't?!

If you wish to know why I reacted as I did, read up on the Dominican Order. There are many Dominicans who were tough and defended the faith with their very lives.

I can't claim I know a lot about the Dominican order, but what I know isn't all roses and peace. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about, so I'll just leave it at that.

In conclusion, it is sad what I did. I know that. But I would not change anything but the curse words. In fact I do not even allow those words on my own site. But you took my honor and trust and trash them in that movie.

OK.

[LayDominican]

Again, the point was that although according to the bible these are bad christians, according to the church they're good christians. They're prostrating themselves to priests as you see -and as you know happens all the time. They're praying to the picture of the pope, and to a tree they say Jesus appeared at in Malta. Of course what's left out from the movie -time factor- are prayers to saints, statues of Mary, the pope himself and many, many other things. The church's blessings are with them all the way. You know that, so why are you pretending you don't?!

The above was what you wrote TK. Those men who prostrating themselves were men about to become priests in the Roman Catholic Church. They prostrate themselves in order to show humility to God. To give themselves over totally to the preaching of the Gospels and to the Teachings of the Roman Catholic Church. It is a very humble act these men do.

As a believer that Jesus the Christ is indeed God, 2nd Divine Person of the Most Holy Trinity, the putting on of a mask on the head of a dying Jesus is insulting and distasteful to a Roman Catholic. I understand that you are trying to say that a Roman Catholic calling Jesus God is incorrect, putting a devil head on the same Jesus should be insulting to a Muslim as well. Now I understand that your faith does not believe that Jesus was God, but the figure on that cross represents Jesus. Show that picture to almost anyone who know the history of the Catholic Church or Christians that are not Catholic and they would know who it is on the Cross. So you are insulting Jesus too. And before you denied it, you chose that picture yourself and you knew who that picture represented. So you also insulted the Jesus that you call just a prophet. But I would not argue that fact with you.

You say that you were not attacking Catholics per say, yet in the beginning of the movie you show men carring a large statue and when it fell, you may sure that the sound was loud. Then you show little children kneeling in front of a statue of John Paul the II? What point where you trying to prove there?

[LayDominican]

TK,

Was wondering how you can explain the reasoning behind this story.



» 11/26/2009 12:44

SAUDI ARABIA
Riyadh: man to be decapitated for witchcraft
In a recent report, Human Rights Watch calls for the sentence to be overturned. Each year, dozens of people are convicted in the desert kingdom for acts against Sharia.


Riyadh (AsiaNews/Agencies) – Saudi Arabia should overturn a death sentence imposed on a Lebanese national convicted of practicing witchcraft during a visit to the conservative kingdom, Human Rights Watch (HRW) said in a report. The international human rights group also complained about the increasing use of charges of 'witchcraft,' crimes that are vaguely defined and arbitrarily used, to arbitrarily arrest and detain people across the kingdom.

The report highlights ongoing complaints over the Saudi justice system, which, whilst based on Islamic law, leaves a wide leeway to individual judges and can often result in dramatically inconsistent sentences.

Ali Sibat, a Lebanese psychic who made predictions on a satellite TV channel from his home in Beirut, was arrested by religious police in the holy city of Madinah during a pilgrimage in May 2008 and then sentenced to death by decapitation on 9 November this year.

“He was the most popular psychic on the channel,” said May al-Khansa, Sibat’s lawyer. “The number of callers, including from all over the Gulf, spiked in number when he appeared,” she added. “He was told if he confessed to witchcraft, he will be released and allowed to return to Lebanon.”

Sibat’s case is not unique. Dozens of people are arrested each year on charges like witchcraft, recourse to supernatural beings, black magic and fortune telling. These practices are considered polytheistic and severely punished according to Sharia rules.

HRW’s report also mentioned the case of Mustafa Ibrahim, an Egyptian pharmacist who was executed on 2 November 2007 for sorcery, which he allegedly used to break up a married couple.

In October 2006, a criminal court in the city of Jiddah convicted Eritrean national Muhammad Burhan for being a "charlatan," based on a leather-bound personal phone booklet containing writing in Eritrea's Tigrinya alphabet, and sentenced him to 20 months in prison and 300 lashes. He was eventually deported after serving more than double the time in prison.



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[LayDominican]

TK,

For the 4th time I watched "open your eyes". Now I should tell you I was a Communications major while in college, and no I did not finish college as I had to work in the family business, but I was there longer enough to see what you are doing with this movie. If you wish to talk about what you did during the making of this movie fine. If you wish to talk about what is seen and done in the movie fine.

I foget the professor of theology who speaks about the first Greek Bible published that left out verses that related to the Trinity. The author of the Greek Bible claims that there was no manuscript in Greek that had any reference to the Trinity. When the Latin Theologians question him, he said supply me a Greek manuscript which mentions the Trinity and he would include it in his next priniting. Which the Latin theologians did. And this professor of theology mock what the Latins did and the audience laugh.

And you also show Jimmy Swaggart, a disgraced preacher who cheated on his wife with hookers or prostituetes(excuse spelling). So, not being one of his followers, what he had to say, whether for or against the Church, I do not care.

Finally the other preacher you used, again someone that I am not familiar with, again metions something about there not being a Trinity mention at all in the Bible.

Well, there are many Christian beliefs that do not follow the teachings of Rome. So what? We donot follow the teachings of man, but the teachings of Jesus the Christ. And I could supply you with the exact words that Jesus used to claim He and the Father are One, but you would only shoot it down with some teachings that are not Catholic and therefore must be right, as the Church wrote the bible to suit their teachings. I find it funny that in the Qu'ran their is a warning about putting the teachings of God on paper, by man. This was directed at the Gospels writers and the writers of the Bible, I guess. But it does not also mean the teachings of the Qu'ran also? if the Qu'fan was written by man, why do you believe in it when your own Prophet warns about the writing about God? Mow I am writing this with respect and do not mean to demean you or the Qu'ran. I am just curious as to what your reply would be. I shall await your answer.

[Truth Knight]

The above was what you wrote TK. Those men who prostrating themselves were men about to become priests in the Roman Catholic Church. They prostrate themselves in order to show humility to God. To give themselves over totally to the preaching of the Gospels and to the Teachings of the Roman Catholic Church. It is a very humble act these men do.

Please point me to the biblical verse that says you should prostrate before another man -in direct contradiction to the other verses that say it's polytheism if you do- and I promise to take this film down right now.

Use your mind Lay. What does "give themselves over totally to the preaching of the Gospel" has to do with bowing down before a picture, a priest or a statue? What's the difference between catholicism and paganism then? And before you lose it once again, that's an honest question, not mockery.

As a believer that Jesus the Christ is indeed God, 2nd Divine Person of the Most Holy Trinity, the putting on of a mask on the head of a dying Jesus is insulting and distasteful to a Roman Catholic. I understand that you are trying to say that a Roman Catholic calling Jesus God is incorrect, putting a devil head on the same Jesus should be insulting to a Muslim as well.

As boring as repeating this to the tenth time is, "This is not Jesus". Read my other replies.

Now I understand that your faith does not believe that Jesus was God, but the figure on that cross represents Jesus. Show that picture to almost anyone who know the history of the Catholic Church or Christians that are not Catholic and they would know who it is on the Cross. So you are insulting Jesus too. And before you denied it, you chose that picture yourself and you knew who that picture represented. So you also insulted the Jesus that you call just a prophet. But I would not argue that fact with you.

You keep thinking I meant to insult you. I'm the one who won't argue this with you coz I'm bored already. This statue represents Jesus to YOU, not to me, Muslims or even other sects of Christianity. Thinking this way is narrow-minded, but hey, whatever floats your boat.

You say that you were not attacking Catholics per say, yet in the beginning of the movie you show men carring a large statue and when it fell, you may sure that the sound was loud. Then you show little children kneeling in front of a statue of John Paul the II? What point where you trying to prove there?

I'm trying to prove just what you're saying. That these people, Catholics, are not following the sayings of Isa (PBUH) or even their bibles. Get it yet?

[Truth Knight]

TK,

Was wondering how you can explain the reasoning behind this story.

Don't know what this has to do with the thread, but big surprise that HRW, which is a crusader in gay rights and making laws for sodomy in the US, doesn't like Islamic laws

IF this is real, which part of it do you want to discuss? Let me know, and we can split this post to a different topic -based on what you wanna discuss- and take it from there.

[Truth Knight]

TK,

For the 4th time I watched "open your eyes". Now I should tell you I was a Communications major while in college, and no I did not finish college as I had to work in the family business, but I was there longer enough to see what you are doing with this movie. If you wish to talk about what you did during the making of this movie fine. If you wish to talk about what is seen and done in the movie fine.

Good. I would get into effects and sounds with you if you want -I wasn't communications nor am I by any means technical btw- but after you prove I was wrong. Not by further insulting me or God (SWT), which can only harm you not anyone else, but by showing that ANY ONE PIECE OF INFORMATION in the whole film is wrong. Just point out one.

I foget the professor of theology who speaks about the first Greek Bible published that left out verses that related to the Trinity. The author of the Greek Bible claims that there was no manuscript in Greek that had any reference to the Trinity. When the Latin Theologians question him, he said supply me a Greek manuscript which mentions the Trinity and he would include it in his next priniting. Which the Latin theologians did. And this professor of theology mock what the Latins did and the audience laugh.

Not that it matters who's speaking since all the info is verifiable if you want to verify it, but since you're so keen on persons, let me tell you that this "professor of theology" is Dr. Bart D. Ehrman. THE most famous early Christianities historian in the world today, author of tens of books and an esteemed member of the theology community in the US. This was an excerpt of a lecture he was giving in Standford University in 2007.

And you also show Jimmy Swaggart, a disgraced preacher who cheated on his wife with hookers or prostituetes(excuse spelling). So, not being one of his followers, what he had to say, whether for or against the Church, I do not care.

Again, not that it matters, but Jimmy Swaggart was THE most famous evangelist in America -till he was caught, that is. His favorite action -before being caught- was to condemn everyone and everything that isn't Christian, and to ask people to repent -right after he left the pulpit and went to his New Orleans prostitutes. This "disgraced preacher" is still one of the most famous in America EVEN after people knew all you said.

Again, what does this have to do with the facts given? The guy was defending the bible to the best of his ability. What do you take on him in this film?

Finally the other preacher you used, again someone that I am not familiar with, again metions something about there not being a Trinity mention at all in the Bible.

It doesn't matter who's saying it. The trinity isn't there in the original manuscripts. All these people are there because they are credible sources to Christians, not anyone else. Do your own research and come tell us your sources.

Well, there are many Christian beliefs that do not follow the teachings of Rome. So what?

Hold on just one second here. Which people are not following the teachings of Rome? Don't you bow before the priest in Rome? Don't you pray before the picture of the pope or the statue of Mary or the saints? Don't you know that all this is part of the church doctrine? If you don't know, please tell me loud and clear that this isn't the church's teaching.

We donot follow the teachings of man, but the teachings of Jesus the Christ. And I could supply you with the exact words that Jesus used to claim He and the Father are One, but you would only shoot it down with some teachings that are not Catholic and therefore must be right, as the Church wrote the bible to suit their teachings.

Actually I've been asking you to do that since I first met you. Please point me to the verse in the bible where Jesus says he is the Father or he is God or that people should worship him. I won't "shoot it down" with anything, catholic or non catholic. I wanna see it in the bible from the lips of Jesus, the one you're telling me is God. Is that too much to ask?

I find it funny that in the Qu'ran their is a warning about putting the teachings of God on paper, by man. This was directed at the Gospels writers and the writers of the Bible, I guess. But it does not also mean the teachings of the Qu'ran also?

There is no such thing in the Holy Qur'an in the first place. You misunderstood something as usual I guess, so please give me Surah name and Ayah number to check what you mean.

if the Qu'fan was written by man, why do you believe in it when your own Prophet warns about the writing about God? Mow I am writing this with respect and do not mean to demean you or the Qu'ran. I am just curious as to what your reply would be. I shall await your answer.

Again, there's no such thing in the Holy Qur'an. A warning about putting the teachings of God on paper? In the Qur'an? Where?!!